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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #1
troupp
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Default right front and rear brakes dragging.

First post... I have an 03 1300 non-abs. Full history as I know it.. bought with 17k miles a month ago. Had been sitting for many years, outside. To resurrect it, I installed a new fuel pump, air filter, upper to lower tank hose, and clutch fluid. That got it running. Once running, It was apparent that the brakes are dragging. So then I pulled all calipers, cleaned off all pistons externally, and checked to see that they all would push back into the calipers rather easily, and they all did. I cleaned up all sliders and lubed, and replaced the rear pads as they were 2/32. Feeling pretty good about the fix.
Test ride to work, hot rear brake and right front brake, Obvious dragging. Ride bike back home, Remove calipers, check that pads move freely within brackets, find nothing. Removed both the SMC and rear master cylinder, tore them down and cleaned up the bores which were ugly, reassembled and checked to see that they were fully returning. Also while apart, checked to see that the transfer ports weren't plugged, not allowing fluid to return to m/c upon release of pedal or lever, all of which appeared good. Spent 3 hours bleeding the pig as per the manual, with removal of caliper and the whole 9 yards.
This last step was last week, and haven't had a chance to ride it until this morning. This morning, test ride into work.. feels slightly better coming down the off ramp, freewheeling a little more, get almost to a stop and feel it dragging itself to stop, mind you I haven't used the brakes in 11+ miles and did not use them coming down the ramp. Go a couple miles to work, immediately check rotor temps.... Rear hot, RF pretty warm, LF cool as expected on a 26 degree morning.

It appears as though the RF and rear are still dragging.... Anybody have any thoughts? Have seen this before? Totally baffled by this thing, love the bike, hate the brakes currently... I work at a Honda shop, and have never seen anything like this come through the door.. HELP?
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #2
Rob2m
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Default Re: right front and rear brakes dragging.

All this is pretty well documented if you search for SMC here.
Can you feel any drag when the bike is stationary?
If so you can always crack open the bleed valve to establish if it's fluid pressure or the pistons sticking.
When I was messing with my SMC I stretched the internal spring as I wasn't too happy with its ability to return the piston.
You could try to see if there is any play in the front left caliper pivot, if the SMC is sticking it may have a little movement, if you press the rear brake it will pressurise this too, this will show if it is sticking in a little.
You can try the SMC relatively easily by lying on the left hand side of the bike on it's main stand and pushing the caliper round while spinning the rear with your foot.
On a granny/eggs note there is not too much fluid in the rear reservoir...
& on a speed note, you can bleed the PCV valve without removing the fairing, just loosen the bolts and it will pry open enough to get a tube on and spanner.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #3
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Default Re: right front and rear brakes dragging.

Oh, and welcome to the site BTW.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #4
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Default Re: right front and rear brakes dragging.

SMC was torn down, honed and is definitely free floating and fully returning. I have cracked the bleeders on the rear, and the center one will ooze fluid(not really pressure) rear one will barely leak. leaving both open appears to have no effect on drag, but have also had rear caliper apart and see no reason why it would drag either.. It's a frustrating mystery. also odd that it seems to be affecting the right front also. front does appear to have pressure, but only on the right hand caliper, not left hand. can't remember which bleeder on the right side seemed to have pressure. I've been working on too many projects lately at night(backhoe, dump truck, and the boys truck) to remember the details of it.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #5
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Default Re: right front and rear brakes dragging.

I would've rather had the option of the previous owner doing any kind of maintenance on the bike... I think the linked brake system is a great system when it works right. However, mine apparently isn't working right. I'm suspecting that the proportion valve is getting hung up somehow and leaving residual pressure on the right front and rear calipers.. I could be wrong.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #6
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Default Re: right front and rear brakes dragging.

Sorry troupp, the site idiot Echo has been woken up, no doubt the essence of this thread will result in him correcting spelling mistakes or other trolling rubbish, you would be well advised to ignore him or just read through his other posts, he gets all giddy when grown ups talk technical.

I had the exact issue you describe and I bought a new proportional valve for the front, It didn't alter anything even to the point I put a blank bolt in the valve replacing the banjo bolt so no pressure was applied to the front right middle piston. The back still ran warm. In the end I think my issue was to do with new pads, the different surface binding causing drag mostly in the rear, but at the end of the day they felt warm, not hot and eventually settled down. There will always be one pad that holds a little more than the rest.
There's so much propaganda generated by idiots like Echo on the net that have absolutely no understanding of how the system works scaremongering becomes a bigger issue than the brakes themselves.
There have been issues with SMC not being serviced and sticking in a little but it sounds like you have covered this and understand the issue it can cause.
The other thing about the brake system is the myth it is all linked and needs to be bled in a specific way, whilst it is true to an extent the front outer pistons and master are separate to all the rest so to a degree you can play with the rest, if you are a mechanic it's not rocket science to use normal bolts to replace banjo bolts to find if something is being unduly pressurised.
Going back to running warm, the rear disc is well hidden with luggage and warmed by the exhausts, either way my front right rotor used more pads then the left, I put that down to me seldom using the foot pedal,the bike has a superb balance from the front lever alone.
Do let us know if you discover more though.
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Last edited by Rob2m; 2 Weeks Ago at 09:37 AM.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #7
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Default Re: right front and rear brakes dragging.

One other thing I have discovered with Hondas generally is a build up of white crud under the outer dust seals in calipers, this causes the seals to sit slightly higher and hence the pistons stick. Might be worth a check.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #8
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Default Re: right front and rear brakes dragging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by echo View Post
How about the rear brake line fires?
Isn't that white stuff corroded aluminum?
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #9
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Default Re: right front and rear brakes dragging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by troupp View Post
I would've rather had the option of the previous owner doing any kind of maintenance on the bike... I think the linked brake system is a great system when it works right. However, mine apparently isn't working right. I'm suspecting that the proportion valve is getting hung up somehow and leaving residual pressure on the right front and rear calipers.. I could be wrong.
GEE when it works right! Isnít it always supposed to work Right? Problem is so many people donít do the maintenance. The system is incompatible with human nature.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #10
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Default Re: right front and rear brakes dragging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ligito View Post
Isn't that white stuff corroded aluminum?
Doubtful. None of my machines ever had that problem. Build up of brake dust and dirt yes. But white stuff no.
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