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Old September 8th, 2013   #11
zldrider
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RaceTech does the front also, springs and Gold Valve emulators.

The entire setup made a huge difference for me.
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Old September 8th, 2013   #12
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Default Re: The jokes on me

Thanks that just about the only system out there I have found so far also I am sure I order it my self in put the in also install a fork brace to stiffen things up.

I might have them do the rear shock then again a new Penske shocks would be very nice also but the $1300.00 price tag is steep I ask some my road racing friends if they can get me a killer deal on a new rear shock it don't hurt to ask.


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Originally Posted by zldrider View Post
RaceTech does the front also, springs and Gold Valve emulators.

The entire setup made a huge difference for me.
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Old September 8th, 2013   #13
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Even this late into the season I believe a fishing license is still required.

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Old September 9th, 2013   #14
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Default Re: The jokes on me

Personally, I prefer game, but anyway, this thread reminded me of my aborted attempt to deal with the limited ST1300 fork adjustability several years ago, which was to acquire a set of pretty blue (for my steed is a 2004...) CBR600RR fork caps. My experience with other Hondas had led me to believe that a mere swapping of fork caps could give me basic pre-load adjustment.

Alas, I never tried to install the caps, probably for the same reason I never got around to installing the Penske shock or Sonic springs! (Unfortunately, I had to move my ST to Italy before I was able to do the suspension work.) I seem to recall an interference issue with the handlebar mounts, which may or may not have been solved with a Tour Performance (Heli) riser... Now I can't remember if that would have solved that problem, but since I did end up removing the riser, even if it did, it wouldn't help me now.

The issue was that the handlebar mounts somewhat cover the tops of the forks, which would restrict the preload adjuster from screwing in and out. Thoughts?

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Old September 9th, 2013   #15
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Default Re: The jokes on me

Some type risers would have been required to gain access for adjustment but two issues with simply replacing the fork caps exist.
First and foremost the caps require the internals to adjust. The ST's forks do not have the required plumbing to adjust damping.
Second the fork caps are for fine tuning. Pre-load adjustments on the ST take serious movement in the springs from stock. Progressively wound springs do not lend themselves to the type movement required to make any difference in adjustment at the cap.

Any adjustments for any reason (pre-load, damping) on the front end of the ST require kits (more than one) of some form. Pre-load will require springs. Damping will require Gold Valves or replacement cartridges that are adjustable.
Kitting the ST is not cheap but it can and will make a huge difference.

Out back the shock is preload and rebound damping adjustable but it also comes with problems.
The shock is seriously under-sprung and that seriously affects any damping adjustments. Kitting it is not cheap and can not be done at home (Race Tech). Replacement shocks are not cheap $700-$1,200 is the norm.
Again you get what you pay for at the higher end here.

A fully turned out ST $3,000. Only the serious need apply.

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Last edited by PaulRB; September 11th, 2013 at 03:53 PM.
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Old September 10th, 2013   #16
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Quote:
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Some type risers would have been required to gain access for adjustment but two issues with simply replacing the fork caps exist.
First and foremost the caps require the internals to adjust. The ST's forks do not have the required plumbing to adjust damping.
Second the fork caps are for fine tuning. Pre-load adjustments on the ST take serious movement in the springs from stock. Progressively wound springs do not lend themselves to the type movement required to make any difference in adjustment at the cap.
Certainly, damping adjustment would have been more complicated; I was only after pre-load adjustability (and a bit of misleading bling) at the time. However, I'm puzzled by your comment regarding the efficacy of external pre-load adjusters on progressive springs. Doesn't nearly every Honda ever manufactured with pre-load adjustable forks also have progressive springs? They're all useless?

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Old September 10th, 2013   #17
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Default Re: The jokes on me

I do not know about every Honda ever manufactured but the CBR's I've ever messed with have duel straight wound springs. Other than the CBR series I do not know of any Honda with adjustable fork caps.

Adjusting progressive wound springs requires much more movement than can be offered on the fork cap. This is why bikes with fork cap adjustable pre-load use straight wound springs.

Every bike ever made? Haven't looked inside but if their adjusting pre-load I'll bet you will find straight wound springs.

As far as damping adjustment.
Complicating only if you consider the ST has non adjustable cartridges.
That kinda makes adjusting them from the fork cap, or any other place, sort of impossible.
That might complicate things.

The sad truth is Honda owns the company that built the forks and shock on the ST.
Honda chose to attach the lowest end suspension they could to one of their higher end products.
I think we all expected better and had every right to expect some adjustability be on something made for "The Best of Both Worlds".
The marketing does not meet the reality.



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Last edited by PaulRB; September 10th, 2013 at 02:27 PM.
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Old September 10th, 2013   #18
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Default Re: The jokes on me

It's hard to tell from the online parts schematics, but most Honda sport motorcycles I'm familiar with have progressive or dual-rate OEM springs. Are they truly progressive? I don't know, but they're definitely not straight-rate.

Pre-load adjusters are also very common on Honda sport bikes (CBRs, VFRs, NSRs--anything with sporting pretensions), which is why I had thought it would have been very odd if Honda had included adjusters that were not effective.

If you're saying that pre-load adjusters are effective on dual-rate springs, well, that would explain why Honda has included them. Are there any OEM truly progressive springs?

Ciao,
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Old September 10th, 2013   #19
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Default Re: The jokes on me

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulRB View Post
As far as damping adjustment.
Complicating only if you consider the ST has non adjustable cartridges.
That kinda makes adjusting them from the fork cap, or any other place, sort of impossible.
That might complicate things.
Swapping cartridges among forks is not beyond everyone's capabilities, Paul...

Adding compression damping would be "complicated", however, and would probably not be worth the effort (given that swapping entire forks or front ends is so easy on many Hondas).

Ciao,
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Old September 10th, 2013   #20
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Default Re: The jokes on me

In the decade the ST has been out I know of no one that has tried it.
Beyond, capabilities certainly not.
Beyond what most owners have laying around, certainly.
I looked into it very early. A fork change would require a one-off steering stem to be manufactured. Not out of the question.
A cartridge change would involve access to several models forks apart and close measurements. Not out of the question either.
Nothing I had access to at the time came within reason so machining/wielding/fabrication would be in order. Not out of the question BUT I do not have the time to put in and did not look forward to having the bike apart for the extended period. The next problem is in handlebar attachment. I do not run risers but something would need to be done to gain access to adjustment. If your going to the trouble of machining a steering stem why not move the bars at the same time? You loose the rubber mounts one. What angle? What height? This rapidly turned into a lot of work and the ergos are going to be best guess in the end. B
By the time everything is figured out Sonic sent a set of springs that cured the major problem and experimenting with oil weights is easy and cheap.
I landed on a acceptable front end will no muss and little fuss.
If there is a new model I would call Traxxion Dynamics and order up their cartridge replacement for the front and the Penske shock for the rear.
Problem solved.


Look no farther than the OEM springs in the ST's front forks for a progressively wound spring.

I do not think I have seen a CBR with progressively wound fork springs.
We not not get the NSR.
The VFR has a cult like following in the U.S. but is not a big seller.
A shame really but fear of V-Tech is only exceeded by lack of knowledge on V-Tech.

Paul
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